Finding the Courage to Change My Life!

All right guys. Uh, welcome to another episode of the Blue Water Cruising Podcast, uh, today. Super excited. I've got Lon and Lon, correct me if I pronounce your last name wrong. So Skalski, did I get that right? Close enough. Close enough. Soki Soki. Okay. Lon Skalski here. Uh, I've known Lon for, well, we met Lon. Lon was in one of our courses that we did. Actually, I think it was the first course that we ever did. Yeah, you were in, uh, one of the Guinea pigs when we got started. Um, and now Lon, as you guys can see, by watching this, is sitting in a very beautiful bay in New Zealand on his catamaran. Um, we'll get into all the exciting stuff and the boat that he's on, um, as we chat, I'm sure. Uh, but just a brief background on on Lon Lon from Canada, fellow Canadian, like myself. Uh, though I think you didn't, you didn't live anywhere near the water. You were in Alberta, which is, uh, awesome and has made the transition with his family. He's got two kids, 19 and 14, um, into the cruising life. Uh, so I'll let you lon give a bit of, a bit of, bit of a more of a background on yourself and, uh, maybe we'll start off, if you can just tell me first of all, why, you know, why being from Edmonton, Alberta, um, why did you want to go bluewater cruising? Yeah, so it goes quite a far, quite a ways back. Um, I just always remember when I was younger wanting to be on the ocean for some reason, and I don't really know why or what drove me to that. Cause I'm terrified of deep water. Makes stranger, uh, catch me in the ocean. Is, uh, you's tough at this moment, but, uh, we go in little steps, small steps. Okay. But, uh, yeah, and then just as things went on, I met my wife. We've done a lot of traveling. Then we had kids and then started watching some of those shows like, uh, Zara and whatnot. So, uh, and then I was like, I, I said to my wife, let's go do this. And she's like, you're crazy. Never. So I got her starting to watch these shows and, you know, although shows show kind of the brighter side of it. Yeah. Um, so we, uh, she got very interested. So we went down to, just before Covid hit, uh, we went down and took sailing lessons in Grenada and, uh, the Grenadines and whatnot, um, St. Vincent and the Grenadines and Deans. And then, uh, that gave us kind of just a little glimpse into maybe we could do this. And we felt a little more comfortable with, uh, catamaran. Uh, we spent I think 10 days on. Um, and that's the only sailing we ever had. Okay. Um, I was willing to just jump into it, but that, that gave my wife the confidence to do it. And then we just said, okay, let's start doing this. And then covid hit and delayed everything. Uh, but what it did give us time to do, um, was um, kind of reflect and see how we wanted to approach it and slowly divest of everything. Um, so we just started selling stuff and eventually we divested of almost everything. Uh, and then finally our house. And then we kind of rented a place for the last six months and, um, Both our works gave us sabbaticals to leave for a year, and then we'll kinda reassess in August what we're gonna do. But, um, so that kind of gave us time to plan and, you know, so that, that, that kind of is how we led into it. Um, just a little bit of a kid dream that turned into a family dream and thought, you know, we're both travelers. We've lived in other countries and been expat. So we kind of just thought, you know, let's do this. Amazing. And, uh, honestly, we just said one once second, kinda, once I decided to do something, we just end up doing it because if you put your energy toward it, it happens. Right? So a hundred percent. And kind of the how we got here, kind of the why is, I mean, um, like personally, I mean, I needed a break. Um, I think you have a similar background. I was, I was feeling a little burnt out with regular life. Covid really kicked, uh, the living, you know, what, out of me. Okay. Um, so I needed a break. Um, and then, you know, just we thought deeper and we thought, you know, the impact it would have on our kids at 19 and 14 and what it would mean for them and how they may, it might impact the rest of their lives. And it creates family memories forever. And, um, we, we did experience some loss over Covid, um, especially toward the end here, uh, with the passing of some family and friends and you just realize life is short. We're not getting younger. We have our health and uh, you know, so we, we kind of wanna live a life of memories and not dreams. Yeah. So we just, we're kind of just, we're just gonna live with that and little bit of a motto, but, you know, you gotta make things happen. So that's kinda what we did. Amazing. Amazing. Um, yeah, you, you said something in there that, that got me, which was the, uh, that you needed a break. And I, I'm, I'm curious about that in how that, cuz I, I mean, I resonate with that, you know, that comes up for me a lot is I get to places where I need a break and if I don't take a break, then I need a big break. And I don't talk about it. It's kind of not totally related to sailing, but it kind of is cuz I think a lot of people go through that to then do something like this. Um, how did that manifest for you? Like, how did you know that you needed a break? Um, it's not the first time in my life, so I, I kind of, you know, I, I like to think I work hard and put a lot into what I'm doing and put a lot into the family and stuff. And then it just builds and builds, you know, I like, I, I, I like to do a lot of things for a lot of people and I just, I think it just builds and eventually you're like, okay, I, I need, you know, I need a change. Yeah. And the way I deal with it is I make a pretty drastic change and, and change quite a bit up. Just so it feels like a new beginning, even though, you know, maybe it's a continu continuum of the same one. But, you know, that's why we like to move a little bit. That's why we've been expat pats a few times. And, and, um, you know, that's, that's, we just like to shake things up and live a little. That helps me restart and re just reboost really. Yeah. So this was really something, uh, I mean, it's for the family is to create that environment, but it also was primarily it's for you to re-energize, regroup to, to give you something for yourself. It, yeah. The, the, for me it was one of many, I mean, I could have kept going on and probably been a little bit getting a little grumpy every day. Um, but, you know, uh, I, I'd rather be, you know, the Happy Lawn versus the grumpy lawn and, um, Yeah. And then I think all the other things are the kind of the broader, more impactful things than just me. It's, it's, it's more the positive impact on the family and the kids and how it may impact their future lives. You know, they were both very hesitant to do this. Um, I mean, it took a while for us to convince our son to come out. Uh, now he is out here and now he wants to plan backpacking trips with friends and stuff. I mean, that's amazings, that's a far departure from, I don't wanna leave Edmonton. Um, yeah. And my, my da my daughter is 14 and she wanted to go back to Edmonton. Now she's like, I don't know where I wanna go. She goes, you know, let's go live somewhere. Amazing. So it's kinds cata, it's catalyzed a change in perspective for the whole family. Yeah, that's, that's super cool. Uh, I want, I want to, I wanna dive into that a little bit because I think there's a lot of people that, that, that watch this, that, that see what we're doing that have families that are in similar situations. And one of the biggest questions, one of the questions we get asked the most often is, how do I get my kids on board with this? You know, there's a lot of PE especially, uh, you have a 14 year old daughter, I think right? Is, and that is like the age that we get a lot of questions where we're like, you know, my daughter's got friends, she doesn't want to come. Um, do you have any like, secret sauce around that, that worked or was it just Yeah, I'll leave, I'll leave it over to you to, you know, do you have anything you wanna say on that? I mean, we, we kind of left the 19 year old, my son, um, just up to, you know, if you wanna come, come. We didn't wanna him and put too much pressure on him and he eventually, we knew he'd eventually come and check it out and we knew he'd love it cuz he likes to travel and likes the ocean. And I mean, He could name every sea animal at four years old, I think. Uh, and then, and my daughter a little, little less into it, but, um, again, really likes to learn. And she self-learned, like, so she, I'll step back a little bit. During Covid, she started home, um, during, you know, school from home online. And she found she was much more efficient and productive. Uh, and she asked if she could just de correspondence, which is essentially teachers are available, but there's zero classes, so she just learns a hundred percent on her own. And just dials in for tests, uh, through, um, the, the internet here. But, um, so she did that for two years before we left, so she was already in sync with doing school remotely. And um, so the impact from her schooling life was pretty nominal, to be honest. Uh, with FaceTime and everything, she still talks to her best friends. Okay. Um, and the way they communicate these days is through that phone anyways. Yeah. Um, so to be honest, I think day to day hasn't really impacted too much. Um, you know, and at 14 they spend a lot of time in their room anyways. But, you know, as far as the secret sauce, I think you just have to, you know, I don't wanna say drag 'em along, but. Um, somewhat dragged them along and yeah. I think it sorts itself out. I really do. I mean, I don't know too many kids that don't look happy out here Yeah. That are really experiencing something the other kids aren't. Yeah. I, I mean, my, my experience is exactly that and it's, and it's exactly that in, in that you, you kind of do just have to drag them along that I'm a big believer in. You gotta live your life for you and do the things that are gonna make you happy, and then you're gonna have happier kids. Otherwise, what happens is you just end up presenting your kids if you start trying to make decisions to try and keep them and everybody else happy. Yeah. Yeah. It's something that we constantly get asked. I think I, I think also about dragging them along. I think commit, like it's only a year of commitment really. And then we'll make a decision. So it's really, she sa sacrificed one year and then we'll make a family decision. If anyone's really miserable, we won't continue. Right? Yeah. Um, but if everyone gives it a full year, then everyone's given it a fair shake. Yeah. So is that, is that what you guys are doing? You've, you've committed for one year When Yeah. When, when is that one year deadline come up? Well, we'll, we'll, the one, one, well, both our sabbaticals are over in October. We're probably back to work November 1st. Um, And Okay. We'll probably make a decision in kind of August cuz we need time to sell the boat and everything now that goes, so, okay. Okay. Okay. So you're into it for a year and then, but is there a chance that if it goes well that you, it might go longer? I've kind of skipped way ahead in the conversation here cause this is normally where I get at the end, it's like, what's next for you? But we kinda got here in, in the, in the beginning, but yeah. Yeah. I, and when I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave it up in the air cuz I, I honestly don't know. Yeah. And we, we kind of all committed to not answering that question until August. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I know, uh, we don't, we don't really, we don't know. I mean, it could go either way. Cool. No, and that's great. I mean, it's good to know that, I think that is a super important point as well. I think a lot of people that think about, I mean, I can't tell you the number of people I talk to about this lifestyle and I say, so what do you want to do? And they say, well, I wanna go sail for the rest of my life. You know, and I, and I, I honestly, I don't know anybody that's ever done that, that, that, that's ever gone sailing when that's. The, when, that's the timeline they put around it. The only guys that I know that do it are guys like you, that it's like we're gonna, we have a defined short amount of time that we can actually make it real for. We really can make it real for, and then you go from there. And some people do. I know lots of people that only sail for a year. Some people too. Some people three, not that many. Much more than that. Yeah. Yeah. And when we talk about kind of the bit of the budget part, I mean, I'll, I'll expand on this too, but I think that's a consideration too, is. How are you gonna live that first year? Like, like we took a 21 day land vacation, uh, that, you know, that's not cheap and that we might not do that at all if you plan five years of sailing, right? Yeah. But we're like, well, we're never coming back from New Zealand. Well, we might, but it's halfway around the world for us Canadians. So it's kind of like, we're here, let's see it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, uh, come up with another source of income while you're going That's, yeah. Or that, that, that's, but and that, that, like, we thought of you too. And we thought of all that, but honestly like I was trying to get away and need, I needed a break. I, I wasn't looking for another job. Yeah. I was looking for a break. And that's kinda why we decided to go to went, is just to be kinda, um, you know, a bit more low key and just time with the family and create some memories. Yeah. That's amazing. Um, I, we'll get into that later. Talk about the future, what you think about it and stuff, options later. Um, can you gimme a sense of like what the change was like, uh, ex expectations versus reality and some of the, some of the high spots and some of the low spots going through it? What stood out to you? Oh, well thank goodness for ignorance. Um, you know, so the saying is true. Ignorance is, ignorance is bliss. Oh, absolutely. I, I, well cuz I, I mean, you know, I, I got the boat and first thing I did was cross an eight day passage. Um, you know, three days was smooth the last, so we missed our weather window because we got a leak in the boat. Okay. Um, and we had to go back. We were eight hours offshore and we had to turn around and, um, Uh, love the Fiji and people, but they, you know, they were amazing. We got there, I think back to Fiji on a Friday. They hauled us out, patched it up, and we were off by Sunday or Monday. Like it was amazing. Um, was that was and then we was that we had enough weather window to go. Was that in V Marina In Fiji? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good place. So that was my first experience. I got the boat and then there was a leak, so I was like, yeah, that sucks. What was leaky? That was my. Uh, so they had put on lights underneath. Okay. And I think, and don't, I mean, hopefully I got this right, but I don't know if they did 'em themselves or not. But whenever we would put up the sale and, you know, it, it, you know, it doesn't really work. Yeah. But a lot of pressure goes on it. It started taking on about a liter a minute. Whoa. So we kind, yeah. It was, it was serious. So we had to, you know, we said, let's turn around. I was like, I wasn't gonna risk anyone's lives. I mean, so we spun around and went back, got her fixed. And then, and then when we got to New Zealand, um, I had, I had, I actually had a captain and I, I hired two crew to come with me. Okay. Cause I was by myself at this point. Uh, the family didn't come till I was in New Zealand. They came to New Zealand. And so my first night alone, uh, the wind was howling, even know, like 60, 70 knots, I'm guessing. Cause I don't remember. But, um, I started dragging anchor on your own. And I hadn't really driven the boat yet on my own. Oh. And I was by myself on the boat. Oh, that's the worst. So, so I, so I, I didn't know what to do. I mean, I, I had no clue. So I just, I get to think fast. So all I did is I said, okay, I'm gonna match the speed. I turned on the motors and I just drove into the wind to match the speed so I could lift the anchor. Um, and I was running back and forth front to back, front to back, uh, just a small adjustments in the wind to get the anchor up. And then I pulled the right up to the boat in front of me like, Probably two feet away. And I ran to the front and I just started dropping anchor and the wind pulled me back. Yeah. And I was just praying, and all of a sudden, you know, grabbed, gave a tug and I was just like, Ugh. Yeah. And then, uh, I just started chop chart plotting every time I'd feel a tug. And eventually it formed a nice little moon shape. And I, I felt good, but I, I didn't sleep. I, I turned, I left the engines on all night and I sat at the helm soaking white and shorts and, uh, I was up for 40 hours. Wow. And that was my first experience on the boat. And four boats hit rocks that night. Oh man. Yeah. And then the second time I drove the road, I had the back into a birth. So I was like, so I was kind, you know, baptism by fire, by fire. Yeah. And, uh, and when we were coming in, both engines stopped working. Uh, you know, And, and, um, like the, the, the last people who did a great job with the boat, they, they, they put on awesome solar, lithium batteries, all new stand and rigging, running rigging. So I was really comfortable with the boat, the bones of it and everything they did to it. I did have a question mark around, um, the motors personally, and I couldn't really get anyone to look at them in Fiji, so I just budgeted for it. And, um, I put a lot of work into the engines now. So, I mean, the, the boat's phenomenal now. Okay. Yeah. Okay. What kind of boat is it? But yeah, so what was massively different? Uh, it's a leopard 43. Okay. Lot of leopards in the Pacific and New Zealand. So there must be a reason for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're solid boats. Not to promote leopard, but I'm super, very, very solid. I think for production boat, they're very, they're very solid. Yep. Especially the older ones. We have an oh seven, so Yep. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Great boats. Yeah. And, and when we got it, like we, we were looking for a boat, like the family was living on it, so I was comfortable that well, if they can live on it, we can live on it. Yep. Um, the first one we put an offer on was actually in the Caribbean. It was a 47. Yep. And, you know, again, ignorance, but I'm so glad we didn't get it. Um, it had, the owners were living in Europe, the boat was sitting on, its, uh, Who knows how long, didn't have lithium, didn't have solar, didn't have any day-to-day living stuff. Um, and that little stuff is massive. Yeah, huge. And then I found this one and I kind of said, let's put an offer in. So we put an offer and I, Fiji and um, then I spent three weeks kind of doing the due diligence and hanging out and meeting a lot of people and doing calva. And then, uh, and then, uh, decided to move forward. Decided to, decided to move forward with it. And, uh, you know, we, we've done a lot of upgrades on that too, on that front, just because we wanted to make this our home. And you gotta budget for that. Cause you, if you don't make it a home that's tough on the family. So you gotta let them, let everybody kind of make it a home. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, whether it's, you know, throw pillows, those are essential. Those are essential. Yeah. It's, I mean, you did the right thing. Yeah. Like we, we talk about that in the course, right? It's the, the ideal, the number one priority is buy a boat that's being actively cruised. Um, and otherwise, especially if you're doing something like you're doing where it's like you've got a year and you want to get out there and you wanna start living the cruising life. Yeah. You don't wanna spend three months of that year. Sorting all this little crap out. You know, you, you've probably even buying boat and that's the catch. Yeah. Even probably buying the boat that you've, you've bought actively cruised. I I can imagine you've spent at least a month, uh, sorting little crap out and maintenance stuff. Oh yeah. And, and, and we've, and we've, we've been adding and fixing things, uh, like we're gonna do it forever because, you know, um, when you're crossing oceans, you wanna make sure it's safe. And if you're gonna do it for a year or two years, or five years, you want it to be comfortable. Cool. But I like that. I mean, it's just the little things is, is like, but the big lesson from the blue, blue water cruising, I mean, honestly, like, I remember the very first time I met you and the very, one of the first things you guys said was, buy it. Like, don't blow your budget. And honestly, like that probably saved me a couple hundred grand. I think, uh, just that statement and, and a lot of stress. And a lot of headache and um, you know, so we, we kind of tried to steer it to the bottom end of our budget Yes. Knowing that we would have to put in money into the boat to make it one safe, kind of do what they didn't do or didn't want to do. And, um, and then, but everything we do is like, we're keeping it forever. Um, we're not, we don't sprint on that, not nothing. Um, we, we, cuz we don't know our decision, so we want to make sure if we do do it longer, um, we're in boat. We want, um, and if, if, and if we, and if we only do it a year, then the next person, you know, I guess can pick their colors on the upholstery, uh, you know, Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. What's, um, that's kind of our rationale. I mean, yeah, it sounds you're doing it the right way, for sure. That is the right way to do it. Um, there's nothing worse than, uh, being in a boat that you paid a lot of money for and then being like, oh my God, I've gotta spend all this money to try and get it to where it needs to be, to actually and enjoy it. That's the, it's terrible. So, yeah. Well, uh, and that's a catch 22 as well. Like, I, I found, How much time we are fixing is quite a bit of time. Yep, yep. Even though, even though, you know, you said the boat was actively being cruised, the boat was actively being cruised and, uh, even though like you did all these things right, you're still spending a, uh, you still find yourself spending quite a bit of time fixing it. Well, sometimes the fix is like 10 minutes, but for me to research it, read on it, figure it out, talk to the manufacturer, it's probably a three, four day process. Yeah. You know, but you know, the, the good part of it is it's all happening here in New Zealand, not in the middle of South Pacific. So every time something happens, it's a bittersweet. I'm kind of like, oh good. It happened in New Zealand. Oh darn, it's gonna cost me money. Um, but, you know, we don't wanna get to Tonga and spend a month in the marina. Uh, I'd rather get all the bugs out here and then. Hopefully it's smoother sailing. Like even the little things, like another quick story, um, we were in a bay, uh, thank goodness it was super calm and our anchor wouldn't come up. Our windless died and we were like, how do we get it up? I mean, we had no idea, you know? Um, what'd you do? Simple thing. I mean, you just released, so we just waved kind of the neighbor, the, the neighbor came over, uh, you know, this 80 year old guy in a Speedo, uh, super nice man came on board. He is like, Hey, I'm 80, you're gonna have to do the work, but I'll tell you what to do. And I was like, no problem. You're saving us. And uh, it was a super calm day. So thank goodness cuz our boat couldn't go anywhere. Um, you know, cause it was windy. I'd be really worried. So I just cranked it up. He, you know, released the clutch, I ranked, brought it up by hand, and we went to the emergency dock and the marina gave us the emergency dock and, you know, um, I know all the mechanics by name at this point. They, they came over and, uh, put in a brand new win list. And, and that's the other thing is, so now we know if the win list dies, what to do. Yeah. Um, secondly, we don't have to worry about the win list because the way I've been replacing things on the boat is if the cost to fix it or the cost to refurbish it is just a little bit less than a brand new one. I just get a brand new one and you know, now I don't have to worry about it for 15 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that, it's that kind of stuff and, and those little lessons like it, it's huge. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's the little things that, that take the time to learn. I don't know if you remember in the course I told the story, there was a guy when it went. I mean, and your, your story's great. I love it cuz you've done something very similar to what we did. Um, you know, we bought our boat in New Caledonia. We sailed it from, I sailed it from New Caledonia. Yeah. Never done an offshore passage to New Zealand. We spent the exact same time you are sailing New Zealand, doing what you're doing in New Zealand and then we lefted and went to the Pacific. Um, and so I, I totally get what you're going through. Um, and it was when I went to the Pacific that I think we probably didn't spend as much time as you have fixing some of the stuff that needed to be fixed on the boat when we bought it. And we just, I was like, ah, we're just gonna go. And when we got two Fiji on the way to Fiji's when like we had the generator die, the main widenings burnt out, which was insane cuz the thing was only like the thing was on there. Must, they must have got sea water in there at some point. Cuz like, it was only like, it was like a new generator. It was like three years old. Um, and uh, a guy told me, a guy told me, he was like, cuz I was, it was one of those moments where I was really down, you know, I was like, ah, this sucks how I couldn't, you know, it's, it's a one step at a time thing, but I couldn't see the last step of how to fix the problem. Oh yeah. And um, a guy told me, he is like, look, Chris, oh yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna spend two years, uh, fixing everything on your boat and it's gonna suck. Um, the good news is after two years, everything's gonna break again, but you're gonna know how to fix it all and it's gonna be a lot quicker and easier. And, and that, that actually, that actually turned out to be true almost. It almost turned out to be exactly true. Actually, it was like two years, almost two years after he told me that everything had broke, every system had broke on the boat and, and then it all started a break again. But, but I, I didn't have that, you know what you're talking about, where you're like, okay, I, I know this. Like, okay, what is this part? What is this system? Where's the manual? Get the manual from the manufacturer. Yeah. Have it all like that had all been done. So the next time around. Yeah, so well, and I we're doing a little bit like I'm, I am doing quite a bit of proactive stuff as well, like, like the through holes. I had the three holes through holes re done. Uh, cuz I, I don't know when they were done and a lot of them are getting corroded, so I thought, you know, I'm just gonna proactively get them done. So thank goodness we got them done. Three just snapped. No problem. But, um, you know, now the thrills are good. Um, just peace of mind. A lot of it's peace of mind from it. Especially if you're with your family. Yeah. I mean, you can't, especially with, you can't put a price on that. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Not that I'm expendable. No, not that I'm expendable, but Yeah. You think differently when they're on board. Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. So, um, if you had to pick big things that stand out to you, expectations versus reality, what are the, you know, what were the big, the big misses there for you? Maybe or the big adjustments that had to happen? Or was it, was it all pretty, did it all kind of pan out relatively around the way you expected? Um, no, not, not as expected. I'd say that getting here was all ex, not ex, nothing's been expected. Actually. I can't, I can't think of anything that was expected, but nothing's been horrible. Uh, it's just different than I expected. Um, okay. Like, I think the adjustment period was longer than I expected. Mm-hmm. Um, and probably a lot of learning on my part with being more patient. Um, okay. Okay. Uh, and I probably still got a, my wife shaking her head, so I got a long ways to go still, but, uh, being patient, being patient's a big one and, and it's really just patience with everything. Like, you gotta remember all the resources are in a marina, all the resources are being pulled in a thousand directions. And so, you know, every morning I'd get my coffee, I'd go walk by all the people I have working on the boat to make sure they know I'm, I know that they're there and I'm waiting for them. Just little things and then they, you know, hopefully come show up to my boat first. Yes. Um, and then you just, you know, try and be the nice guy, you know, I don't wanna be the loud guy who, you know, gets things done. I wanna, you know, make a lot of friends and. People like us and we like them and get things done on the, the good side of things. That's a very Canadian approach to it. But yeah. And then, and then when stuff happens, well, just like stuff happens in Fiji, you know, like I remember we were coming back in and they're like, you're coming back. And I said, I missed you guys. Okay. And they just started laughing and then, you know, they just helped us out. So, yeah. You know, I think, I think, you know, if you, you pay it forward a little bit and be nice to people, you can kinda get that reciprocated, hopefully a hundred percent Matt. A hundred percent. But to your question, the reality, the, the reality is, um, and I could, so patience, I could do way better at asking for help more often. Um, you know, again, I'm a little bit of a, I like, and it doesn't hurt. I mean, in the long run I'll probably better off cuz I'm reading stuff and learning it, but, and then I'm letting the pros do it and I'm watching them do it. So I'm learning it. Uh, just little things like tons of little things. It's, the little things are endless. I mean, I still don't feel like I know everything. I know very little, to be honest. Um, but we're faking our way through it and, um, being cautious and conservative and, you know, living it, I guess. And that, that's the biggest part. I, I think, yeah, like I, I could probably pick apart the reality versus, you know, what we thought it would be. But I remember when we moved to Taiwan, for instance, it was hard. Um, we couldn't speak Mandarin or Taiwanese or nothing, and there was a big adjustment period. But after that year of living there, we, I mean, it's one of the best things we ever did. And a lot of things we, we always reflect on it and I feel this will be the same. It's hard while you're doing it, it's challenging. You're learning lots, but that's what makes it so rewarding as well. And when you're done, that's what makes up the good stories. Yep. Yeah, you can't have No, I did. I like Dragon Anchor in the middle of the night. No. And did I like Dragon Anchor in the middle of the night by myself? No, but I didn't crash the boat and I survived. Now it's a hell of a story. Yeah, it's a great story. It's great story. Love it, love it. What not to do. Wow. Yeah. What I mean, what or what to do to, to figure it out given what you had to figure it out. Like it's, well, it's, there's a lot of people that I, that I could tell you that would do 10 different things than you did and end up in 10 different situations than you did. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think under pressure, I'm pretty good at figuring it out pretty quick. And, uh, I've been tested several times already in this short six months to kind of support that. I'm, I'm getting more confident in myself. Like I think I've always been half decent at that, but I'm, I'm realizing maybe I am half decent at that. Yeah, well, you, you absolutely are. You have to be to do what you've done. Yeah. I think that that's, it's one of the prerequisites for, uh, for, for people that actually do this, that there's like, yeah, you've gotta have an ability to figure things out when the pressure's on in a and, and stay rational and calm. Um, you want, and so, yeah, like on land life, we'll call it, I'm, I'm pretty planned. I, I, I have my list of things to do. I know how much I'm gonna put away, what I'm gonna save, what I'm gonna buy, where I'm gonna go, everything, everything's planned. I have a to-do list, never goes away, but I do it when I want to. You don't get that luxury out here. If you're winless breaks, you don't get to do it next week. You have to do it now, whether you want to or not, whether you'd like to or not. You gotta pay for it, whether you like to or not. It, it, it, it, it demands you in a different way and it in a way of necessity really. Um, where in land life you don't have that urgency and necessity like you do on the water. Um, and I think that's a big difference. Cause you, cause I'm a, a planned and calculated person, you can't plan, you can plan the weather and hope that, you know, predict wind is right, I guess. But the reality is you can't plan where you're gonna be in a couple days because you don't know what the weather's gonna be. You don't really know, you know, there's a ton of unknowns that become known as the Bay. Like, even now we're like, oh, should we stay in this bay? Because the wind might come that way. We might wanna skip around the other side of the island, you know? Yeah. At home, you turn on the TV and you don't really care which way the wind's going. Don't even, I've never think about it, about weather so much in my life. I mean, na nature, nature, nature dictates your decisions to a large degree. So, yeah, like, it's, it's, it's a, it's a different urgency. And the to-do list doesn't now it, I still have one. And it doesn't go away, but it's, it's, it's, you have to be on it all the time. I try and do one thing a day just to keep on top of it. Right. That's super smart too. You mentioned one thing that was super helpful about, um, uh, what you learned from us in the course. Is there any, any other things, big things that stood out for you that were helpful along the way, uh, in making the transition? So it's kind. Yeah, and I'll be honest, I, I, so the, the money thing is I'm a banker, so I mean, the money thing resonated with me. I was like, oh good. I get to save money buying a boat by buying an older boat. And I've heard all the stories out here of people buying brand new boats and it's costing them more than it's costing me. So, uh, yeah. You know, and you know the saying, it doesn't matter what boat you're in, the view is the same. So, yeah. Um, that, so that stuff resonated with me and it really helped us out on budgeting and planning, uh, which, you know, is my thing. Um, but I think the one that is those discussions with your family, but like, have real discussions and really understand what they wanna achieve from it cuz you know, um, yeah, I think, I think it's a big learning curve. It, it's big for me. I think it's bigger for them. Yeah. Um, because where I might get my hands dirty and be figuring it out, it's still an unknown to them, but, you know, um, yeah. And that takes even longer, um, than it takes the person who wants to do it. Yeah. So, so creating, uh, so just having like the framework and the context to have some of the conversations around what the, what the change is like, um, set some expectations that made it less, uh, yeah. Less volatile going through the change. I mean, it's volatile enough as it is, I suppose, so. Well, when I was going through the course, I kind of was like, oh, well really, you know, I kind of didn't put a lot of stock into that stuff. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that because that's, and, uh, we, I hear that all the time from people that are going, like everybody, everybody. And, and I'm glad we're talking about this because like out of all of the conversations that I've done like this with people that are actually where you're at, that are out cruising, that have gone through the course, every single one of them is, when I ask this question has said this, that this is like, it's the, the first whatever, four modules of the course where we get into the, uh, relationships we get into, we get into fears, we get into things like that. They've said that those were the most impactful, but they've also said that at the time, You know, they, they, they didn't really pay attention to it, or they kind of did, and then they only realized that now. And, and every single one of them has said to me, you need to spend more time on that. And I'm like, well, we spent quite a bit of time on it anyway, you know, and they're like that. But I didn't pay attention to it. Well, I, I, I think what happens is, I'll give you a good example. Like, I was, I was working from home, you know, divesting stuff and, and, uh, during Covid and, and my wife was still going out of the house to work and, you know, one, one kid was going to school, one's at home doing it, but, you know, everybody was doing their life. Um, yeah. And I was kind of doing life, but also planning for this kind of as a sole planner really. Um, and then obviously involving my wife when we wanted to look at a boat. Um, but, um, I think that got me into it. A lot quicker than everybody else, cuz everybody else just showed up for a vacation. Um Okay. Where I was kind of like, I was already a month in with the boat before they got here. Yeah. You know, so we started at different timelines and, and because of my direct involvement, uh, my timeline was even shorter. Uh, where there's just probably still going, you know, still longer than mine at this point. Um, so it's, I think including them immediately, whether it's even looking at boats, I would have the kids involved looking at boats because it just gets them thinking it doesn't matter if they have input or they don't wanna do it, it's really just to get them. A little excited maybe, or get to see the boat and they can start thinking, envisioning their room on the boat or picking a color for their room. Like, it doesn't matter the degree, it's just involvement. Yeah. I love it. I love it. I mean, I, I, I love, I love everything you just said there to, to me that is the, the crux of the thing. Um, and yeah, I just, I find it like literally even right now, you know, we have people going through the course and it's like they just all want to get to the boat buying module, you know, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like this is the stuff that lays the foundation for the success, you know, if you want this to actually work well with the family. Yeah. Like the boat. I mean, you, you want a trustworthy boat that's gonna get you from island, Thailand, we'll say, but the boat overly doesn't matter. I mean, you know, as long as it's safe and it's operational, we'll say, I mean, what really makes it. The lifestyle is my adding throw pillows. Yeah, that's it. No, I'm just kidding. But, but also like stuff like, and pe the thing people don't budget for, like, you know, like we wanted a kayak. We got a kayak, uh, we just ordered a, a foil and board and wing for example. Like, you, you wanna do that kind of stuff and you gotta set aside money for that stuff because if you're just gonna come, it's like retiring. If you're gonna retire and sit at home, is that retiring? Or if you're gonna come sail or you just gonna sit on your boat and do nothing like you, you have to like, our dinghies a little bit big for us cuz we're not, we're not gonna be, you know, like we water skiing stuff at home. But this boat's not gonna get me up anytime soon. It's a 30 horsepower, it's a huge dinghy. Great for offshore, but once my son leaves, it's me, my wife and daughter. We can't pull it off the beach. So we wanna downsize our dinghy. Right? So just it's those things, those costs that you have to think about that make it practical for you. Yeah. Like, I don't want the fastest dinghy, I don't want the most beach worthy dinghy. I want something that does everything. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it needs to something. I want the souped up one. The, the, the way we put, the way we put that is it's like, it's identifying what you value, like what it, what brings you value in that lifestyle, and then knowing what to bring into, what to add to the boat or what to, to bring into that life that's going to bring you value in the lifestyle. Um, and I think that's where some people get lost. Yeah. Like, you know, the, the, the prior people, they had a, a freezer and a fridge. Well, yeah. You know, they had twice the people we have, they had eight people on here. We had four. And now we have three freezers and two fridges. Um, did you bring, did you bring, did you bring a moose with you or what? Well, we, we like, we like our cold beverages and we love ice. So those are things that are luxury out here. The extreme luxury out there. Yeah. But they're necessities if that's what you value. Alright. We've covered quite a bit of ground in that and there's a lot of, of, of like real nuggets of wisdom in there I think that you've offered. So thank you for sharing those, especially for, you know, people that are thinking about this. Um, I've got a couple, couple questions. Um, first off, like, and we touched on this a little bit at the beginning, um, yeah. Uh, what is next for you? I mean, there's the option of, of, so Well Yeah. What's next? Where you at now? Cuz you're, you're not staying in New Zealand, right? You are heading out of New Zealand at some point here to go Yeah. Some point soon. Yeah. Yeah. So that, I mean, that's another thing, like we weren't sure, like my, my like, I'll give you an example. My daughter's not comfortable crossing, so Yeah. We're, she's actually gonna fly to Tonga. Yeah. Um, and I'm gonna, I have a buddy coming. I, I have a buddy here and a buddy coming from Canada that the three of us are gonna take the boat to Tonga. Dude, I'm gonna stop. And Minerva, I love this. Like, you, you're literally doing exactly what I did. Like, that's like, like literally that's what we, I went like New Cal New Zealand on my own with crew. Like family came in when I got to New Zealand, you know, uh, or actually we left a boat for a bit that was a bit different, but, and then leaving. Yeah. So I didn't wanna do the crossing. Uh, kids didn't wanna do the crossing. And so I had a bunch of people that I did the crossing with, we stopped at now. I just hope your generator doesn't break, knock on wood. Cuz that's what happened to me. So don't do that. So, um, I don't, I don't use my gener. I've only, to be honest, it doesn't even, I, I'm getting it fixed right now. Well, it worked so I shouldn't say fixed. It always worked, but I'm just getting every little component that needs replaced. Replaced, but Okay. I actually don't need it. I've, I, I've only started it three times in six months. Okay. And it's just to show people that it works. It was not to use it. Um, cuz it's a site for soor eyes, but it, it's, it's, it's a good backup. But with all our solar and lithium, we actually don't plug in or use any. Yeah. Perfect. Okay. So sorry that was a distraction. So you're going, uh, New Zealand to Tonga, you're stopping at Minerva, which is gonna be unreal by the way. Just be careful of tiger sharks cuz they are sometimes there, um, when you're swimming. Yeah. But minerva's outta this world. Um, and then you're sailing into, I guess into Tonga Tapa, Tonga Tapu from, uh, Minerva. Is that the idea? Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, and then we're gonna spend a few months there and then head to the Lao group and, and Fiji, um, and then spend time in Fiji. And that's probably where we'll have to make our decision. And then if, if, if we keep going, like it'll be Vanuatu, new Cal, probably Australia, you know, like the, and then up, up to where you are now, up to my neck of the wind, that kinda stuff. Yeah. Cool. Well, I mean, you never know, like you, yeah. So, we'll, we'll see though, but we really don't know. Yeah, you, yeah, I was just gonna say, you don't know, like it's, it's, uh, I mean I spent two and a half years in the ELPAC Pacific just doing Tonga, Fiji, Vanuatu, new Cal, New Zealand, because there's just so much. I did it once and it was like, that was not even close to enough time to do what I wanted to do there and see what I wanted to see. So, um, yeah. I'm excited for you, man. That's super, well, super exciting. Originally we were gonna go to, uh, Um, Tahiti, uh, you know, French Polynesia, but then we, we decided the, the 20 day passage Yeah. And the cold weather to get there. Yeah. Uh, I didn't want the headache. No, no. That's biting off a big piece. Islands in paradise or islands in paradise. Yeah. And that's And unnecessary stress. Yeah. It's not a fun, uh, 20 day passage. It's like, you know, like you said, cold. No. For a long period of that trip. So, well, and you know, seven days up is pretty predictable. 20 days that way is very unpredictable. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, I'm not doing this to take too much risk. Nah, no man. Do it. Chill until you Yeah, it's all good. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Amazing. Okay, so up in, up into the South Pacific in a hangout there, do Tonga. Um, and then, and then see where it goes. And then you're making the decision probably around Fiji to see what you guys are gonna do next. Um, people, I mean, we get obviously doing what we do. Uh, we've got a ton of people that watch this that are thinking about going bluewater, cruising. Um, and so if having gone through this transition very recently from Land Life to now, you know, full-time cruising, what would be, if you had one thing or a couple things that you wanted to share with people that are getting started, um, that they need to know or need to be aware of or need to learn, what would that be? I think, I think people get, get caught up in that whole thing actually. I think you just do it. Um, I think you can overthink this and talk yourself out of it very easily. Um, I'm not that type of person. Uh, when I, when I decide something, I do it, but I'm just saying I know a lot of people and a lot of people around me. Um, Can talk themselves out of things. Um, yeah. And they plan and plan and plan and never do. It's like, I mean, in the course we talked about people who don't leave the marina. I think, you know, it's the same thing. We, we could sit in the marina and fix things forever. Yeah. Um, like we had a water maker, a little part broke and took me four days to figure out, I ordered the part, took three weeks to get here. I could have sat in the marina for a month. Yeah. But there's a little button that you can actually taste the water and if it has low salination, you can press it up and turn it, and it opens the valve. So I was running out there and opening the valve for a month till the part came. But we were in bays experiencing, you know, cruising. Um, I, I would, I, so I would say just do it. I mean, figure out your budget. Have a little bit in there for personal. Um, how you wanna make the boat your own and have a little bit in there for fixing stuff. Uh, and I would almost say, you know, kind of 20% for those two things are the value. And then, um, just go get a boat. Doesn't matter the size, price, anything. Just do it and do it. Like, like I said, I think people overthink everything. Just do it. I love it. It's like everything. I mean, I remember Yeah, like, you, you kids, you can, I mean it's like, it's like, yeah. I mean, we have kids planning a pregnancy and then nothing goes as planned. It's the same thing buying a boat. Yeah. You know? It's true. It's true. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. No, I love it. I think you don't know what's wrong with the boat. Yeah. No. Cause you, you gotta, you like cross like what me and you did crossing right away. Probably the best thing you can do because you learn everything about the boat and what needs to get done with the boat. Yep. And then we just got on it and got it fixed and then got out cruising because you could literally, Um, spend months just finding things wrong. Yeah. But if you do a crossing, you kind of find out everything wrong pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah. The boat shows a tell. Yeah. You, you sail on a boat for seven days offshore, you're gonna know, you're gonna know what needs work. Yeah. Like, I, like, I, I, I think I said this to you before, like really the three words. Courage, commitment and patience. I mean, that's it. I love that. You know, courage to do it. Yeah. Commitment to follow through with it. Yeah. And, uh, patience to sustain it. I love that. I love that. That's really great. If you don't have patience, you're not gonna, if you don't have patience, you're not sticking with it. You're gonna say, you know what? I'm okay fixing one motor, but two, that's too much. I'm going home. Yeah. Resilience. Resilience. Resilience. That's, yeah, resilience is huge. Yeah. You need it. I love it, man. I mean that's, that's great. That's, uh, that's, that's a lot different than it's actually sur I'm, I'm surprised that nobody said that to, to me before. You're the first person that's actually come at it from that perspective. A lot of people have all these things they want to add, but you're, I like this. Don't overplan, don't over prepare. Just get out there. Do it. Make it happen. You can't, you can't, you can't overplan and over prepare because you, you don't know what you're buying and you really, honestly, you don't even know where you're going. I mean, yeah. I, I didn't, we, we weren't even looking at buying a boat in the Pacific. We were looking at Caribbean and we're so glad it didn't happen in the Caribbean. Uh, because I, I just think if, if we were to place, where's the number one place we want to cruise? It was the Pacific. Yes. So now we're thrown into our number one spot, and if we only do it a year, we saw our number one spot. Yeah, yeah. You, you and me both. Man. I was the same thing. I didn't know where I wanted to buy a boat. I ended up randomly buying a boat in the South Pacific sail to New Zealand. I think it's the best place in the world to cruise, uh, you know, short second to Southeast Asia, mostly because it's way cheaper to cruise in Southeast Asia, but it's a lot harder to start because you, there's way fewer services, so you need to be completely, basically self-sufficient by the time you get here. Um, but uh, yeah, and I talked to so many people that started in the Caribbean when I was in the South Pacific, that started in the Caribbean that came all the way across the Pacific. And I would, I would be in Fiji and I'd been, I'd been hanging out in Fiji for months because I was started in this ELPAC Pacific and they got across and they're all burnt out. You know, they've just spent months sailing across the Pacific and they're like, oh, we just want to get to port and like take a rest. And I'm like, wait, you're in the most amazing place in the world to be cruising. You know? Like, what do you, what do you what? Yeah. But, and so in, in hindsight, everybody, all those guys I talked to were like, Hey, you did it the right way and I think you did it the right way as well. Um, yeah. And I, and another quick point, Chris, is I think not just doing this and buying a boat and living the lifestyle, whatever you wanna call it, I, I think each person on the boat should have personal goals around that. Like I told you, uh, earlier, I was scared of deep water. That's, that's not joking. Uh, I remember I was scraping the ball on the boat and I got caught up from all the barnacles. I didn't realize I was all caught up because you're underwater scraping. I came up, I was caught up and my wife's like, what are you trying to attract the sharks? You know? Cause I was bleeding everywhere. And, um, And like, I'm honestly like a prairie kid, watched jaws. I mean, that's all it was. And I'm scared of deep water. So, you know, every time I go in it's for another minute and I'm probably, you know, I could probably go in for 20, 30 minutes now and feel okay until recently I caught a shark. I hooked a shark while we were fishing. I saw that a good size. I saw that on Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then, uh, at, at two of the bays we were in, we saw sharks. So we're like, okay, well not swimming here. Uh, and they're probably harmless, but to my point is we're gonna go get scuba open water certified at poor nights. And, you know, that's one step closer to me, uh, kind of tackling the fear I have. So I think just little things like that you can accomplish. Oh, so just, I was saying we're, we're doing, uh, open water at poor nights, so, you know, it's just one step closer to overcoming that fear of water. And I think if people set little goals like that too, just you can have a lot of little wins on a, on a very story lined life out here on the water. I I, I love that. I love that you added that. Um, because I think it's, uh, it's, it's essential actually to, um, To con whether you guys continue or not with this, but it's, it's essential to like getting a sense of fulfillment out of, out of the life. And cuz I do talk to people that, they get into this, they buy the boat, they go and they don't have that, they don't have this. Like, I mean I love this little personal goal for you around, you know, a part of this is tied to you getting more comfortable around this fear, around water, whatever it is. Some people are like, yeah, I wanna go scuba diving, or I wanna learn how to surf, or whatever it is. Um, it's essential because what I've seen happen with people that don't have that is they get out there, they cruise for six months and they get to this place where're like, Hey, now what, you know, I've, you know, I'm, I've, I've bought the boat, I'm out here. And they're like, bored. Um, because they're not working towards any sense of personal fulfillment from it. Um, they haven't identified personally with what it means to them, or there's no, like, I love what you said about the, the thing with the water like that, that's attached to this, where it's like, Hey, I'm gonna work on this while, while doing this, I'm gonna lean into that fear. Um, yeah. So I find it funny how everyone, everyone find when they find out I'm scared of deep water. Are they like, well, you're sailing across the ocean. And then I have to remind people that I'm on a boat. Yeah. Yeah. As a, as a quick aside to this, I'm not swimming. I'm not Yeah, you're not swimming across the ocean. I'm not swimming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're sa you're sailing on a boat, not swimming, um, by the, the sharks in New Zealand are very nice, they're very friendly. There's not too much to worry about them except for like the makos watch out for them, but they, they're not around where you're swimming. So, um, but uh, I'm excited for you. Super excited for you. I'm stoked that you guys are in New Zealand. I love just like looking at your video right now and seeing where you're anchored cuz it brings back for me, amazing. Uh, it brings back amazing memories. I just had a, a call with another guy, um, that's going to another podcast that's gonna go out and he. He, he put, he put it like this. He was like, you know, there's moments in in our lives. He's, he's like, you know, his perspective was when you die, he's like, he doesn't think that you look back at life as like a video reel. He's like, it's a series of moments and photographs of like, moments in time. Um, and I kind of, I resonated with that. You know, there's, there's a bit of both for me, but, um, and one of those moments for me is definitely like where you guys are right now in New Zealand, like several of those moments. Um, New Zealand is an unreal place to, I think, start, start cruising, especially the time of year you're in there right now, so, um, well, I'm stoked you guys are there, and if people do come to New Zealand and if people start in New Zealand, you have to budget for a land vacation cause it's an amazing country and amazing people. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like Canada, but it's, it's all in like one third of Alberta. Yeah. You know, it's. Every, around, every corner is a new landscape, a new geography. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And did you say it cut out there for a minute? Did you say that you guys were, uh, you're going to go scuba diving? Did it, did I get that right? Yeah, that's, that's part of my fear factor thing. Yeah. That's, uh, yeah, we're gonna at the poor, we're doing lot at the poor nights water, uh, poor nights. Yeah, dude, that's unreal. That's, we're learning. That's unreal. That's like in, I mean, I've done a lot of diving. I've probably got close to a thousand dives, and the poor nights are in the top three of the best places I've ever dove, like unreal diving. And if you, yeah, they say it's top 10 in the world. Yeah. No, it's, it's, oh, it's, it's insane. It's like, it's unreal. Um, and if you can, if you're comfortable with it, it's a bit of a gnarly anchorage. Um, but you can bring the boat there, right? And you can anchor there and hang out, and it's one of the coolest anchorages that we ever went to. Yeah. Um, the weather's gotta be right, and it's a bit of a gnarly anchorage to get into, but it, when you have good, calm weather, like if you guys can do it, it's like it's next level to be able to anchor and then just snorkel around and hang out. There's just big schools of fish that will just live under your boat while you're anchored there. So you just, like, you don't even need to dive, you just hop in the water on the swim ladder and look under your boat. Um, so, and there's not that many places in the world where you can do that. Um, the, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a unique one, so Yeah. Yeah. It's kind a good and a bad. Like it'll be super cool to learn there, but it's also kind of like, it's probably all downhill from there. Ah, you just gotta pick and choose. Depends. There's like, nah, it'll be nice. I'm just joking. Do you, do you, um, well, do you have a compressor and tanks on the boat or are you, you guys who you guys are just gonna go over with a, with a dive outfit? Yeah, we're going with a dive outfit that, like, we, I've never went scuba diving. This will be the first time. Yeah. I mean, I, I can guess based on your fear of deep water, that's, uh, that's awesome. Yeah, we, we had, uh, yeah, we had a, we had a compressor on board, but it was a little bit beat up, so I actually to lighten the boat, I threw it out. Okay. Okay. Alright, cool. Well, thank you Lon, for taking the time out of, uh, your adventuring around to, uh, to hop on and, and share, share some wisdom. Another thing that, uh, somebody shared with me recently, as they said, knowledge, uh, is learned through your own experience and wisdom is, is learned by listening to others. Um, so I appreciate you taking the time to share the knowledge that you've learned so that hopefully people can pick that up as a bit of wisdom as they, uh, move into this. Um, there was a ton of great stuff that you shared. I wrote some notes even cuz there was stuff in there that I, I liked a lot that I think is even applicable, um, to various things that I'm doing. So, um, thank you. Really appreciate it. Uh, any, any last thing that you wanna say to the people that might be listening to, to close it off on your end? No, like, honestly just commit and get her done. Like, I, I, I think it's, whether it's cruising or, or something else. I mean, I think just live cool, you know. I love that. I probably, cause I'm 50, so I'm ticking backwards now, but, you know, just, I, I like that though. Just Liv, you're young man. Fifties, young. 50 is, is is young. You still got lots, lots of life ahead of you. Um, and you're living it, so it's rad. Yeah. Um, amazing. Okay. Thank you very much guys, uh, for checking out the, this episode of the Blue Water Cruising Podcast with Lon, uh, hanging out in New Zealand about to head into the South Pacific. Uh, there was tons of great stuff in there, so I hope you guys took notes. Um, and uh, we referenced a couple of times the courses and things that we do. If you guys are interested in that, just head over to bluewater cruising.com. Uh, somewhere on the website you'll see a button to contact us. If you do that, somebody will reach out and get you the details. Um, and uh, whatever you do, like Lon said, do something. If you're considering going bluewater cruising, do something that's gonna take the next step to get you out there, whether that's work with us or work with somebody else. Just do something. Stop planning and make it happen. So, uh, I love that and thanks Lon. Um, we'll see you guys next time. Cheers.